Bishop Epting blogs about the questions he got at an adult forum at a small parish in Louisiana. Here’s an excerpt:
I presided at the Eucharist and preached at a small mission congregation in the Diocese of Louisiana this morning. Before the liturgy, I led an adult forum with about 15 folks around a table in the parish hall. After an overview of the House of Bishops meeting and a little bit on our ecumenical relations, I opened the floor for their questions.
Lots of concern about the “September 30 deadline” (which, of course, is not a deadline but as the Archbishop of Canterbury has reminded us “perception is reality” in real life). I spoke of my hopes that we will find a way forward, and then said something like:
“Two things I hope you’ll hold in tension: I want you to be concerned about these larger issues, about the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion, and all the rest of it. But, bottom line, no matter what happens at this House of Bishops meeting, it doesn’t have to derail your local efforts. The cutting edge of our mission and ministry is the local congregation and you need to build a healthy and vital congregation!”
A 40-something big guy, with a red face and tears in his eyes said, “I disagree with you. What happens does affect our local congregation! I invite people but nobody in this part of the world wants to come to a church where, when you open the paper, is all about gay bishops and being thrown out of the world wide communion!”
I conceded that there are local consequences, but reminded him that I was only arguing for some balance in all this”¦that we shouldn’t be consumed by “the issues” but dedicate ourselves to mission. Then we went on to the predictable argument about “do we believe the Bible or not”¦why won’t the bishops defend the plain Scriptural truth”¦why is the Episcopal Church going against worldwide Christian opinion on these matters, etc., etc., etc.”
—–I conceded that there are local consequences, but reminded him that I was only arguing for some balance in all this…that we shouldn’t be consumed by “the issues†but dedicate ourselves to mission. Then we went on to the predictable argument about “do we believe the Bible or not…why won’t the bishops defend the plain Scriptural truth…why is the Episcopal Church going against worldwide Christian opinion on these matters, etc., etc., etc.‗–
Doesn’t he get it? “The issues” make the “mission” darn near impossible! How can we preach the Good News when the majority in our church has turned theology into “ME-ology?” Few people have need of a church that blesses 21st Century secular culture and seeks to accommodate that culture.
I’m glad, though, that he was forced to listen to people far removed from the “New York state of mind,” even if he dismissed these good people as not being taught to his liking by the local church.
Then we went on to the predictable argument about “do we believe the Bible or not…why won’t the bishops defend the plain Scriptural truth…why is the Episcopal Church going against worldwide Christian opinion on these matters, etc., etc., etc.â€
You almost hear him saying – blah, blah, blah…
And then this:
But, over a glass of wine at lunch with the rector and his wife, I had to confess that I do not know if we can hold this fractious Church together. Where I live, in New York, we bishops will be pilloried if we make any concessions in a conservative direction. An 815 staff person walked out on Katharine Jefferts Schori after she reported on General Convention Resolution B033. It was too conservative.
Now how likely does Howe’s proposal seem to fly?
Now, can you imagine the responses to these same questions, by, say Bishop Iker?
I commented on Epting’s site once and don’t think I should let it become a habit, but I wish that he would note that not everyone in NYC or the northeast is a cultural liberal.
Years ago, when 815 sent a few folks out into the hinterlands to see what we thought they could do to help, I said very plainly- “stay out of the newspaper”….Yes, mission is local but the locals read the paper and watch the TV. 815 may think most people agree with their stand- but I’d wager that in the small silent places most folks would say “no, this is not what God wants”.
I have long lived in New York, many years of which were spent in Manhattan. I want to thank that “big guy with a red face” in Louisiana for speaking up for me.
They keep using that word (mission). I do not think it means what they think it means.
[blockquote]Where I live, in New York, we bishops will be pilloried if we make any concessions…[/blockquote]
Simply incredible – a defender of what?
[Here’s the comment I posted at Stand Firm, responding to Jackie Bruchi’s commentary there. I read this here on T19 first, but wanted to see some other folks comment before I weighed in — just to make sure my own negative reaction wasn’t out in left field. But others like Jackie are seeing the same things I saw, so I’ll chime in with my own 2 cents]
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I found this a very troubling blog entry from Bp. Epting.
Jackie’s picked out one thing that is disturbing: the sense of two-facedness: say one thing to the parishioners, another to the clergy.
But there is more:
— there is the tone of dismissiveness towards the questions and concerns of the parishioners, e.g.
[i]”Then we went on to the [b]predictable argument[/b] about “do we believe the Bible or not” “[/i]
— there is the disdain for the rector / priest-in-charge’s teaching and discipling. e.g. [i]”So, I did what bishops do every Sunday in the 50 minutes we are given in adult forums like this…trying to summarize decades of biblical scholarship, cultural differences, Anglican polity — [b]things which parish clergy should have been doing for years in little places like this!”[/b][/i]
Oh us poor poor bishops. What an awful job we have. Trying to make up for the ignorance of the parish clergy and their incompetence at teaching and discipling their flock according to the approved liberal ideology.
Do you really think the parishioners WANTED “decades of biblical scholarship” shoved at them? I wouldn’t if I were them. I’d much prefer an honest dialogue than being lectured at for 50 minutes. I mean, it was only a group of 15, not a lecture hall of 150. Do you really LECTURE 15 folks, or do sit and have a, um, CONVERSATION with them (!!!) I thought the bishops were excelling at conversation this week. Maybe conversation is not what we think it is. Ireneaus, do you have a definition for us?
— the third thing that bothered me. How does +Epting define his “success?” It’s all about him and their relationship with him. Not about Jesus and whether he built them up in the faith or imparted some important truth from the Scriptures. Here’s what he says: [i]”I think I did OK. They trusted me enough to come to the liturgy, listen carefully to the sermon, receive the sacrament.”[/i]
And then of course, there is the double standard Jackie points out and his failure to admit what he really believes to the parishioners.
I hope a few of them are Stand Firm [or T19!] readers. Bp. Epting clearly was writing for the 815 crowd, as if the last thing in the world he expected was that anyone out in flyover country, let alone this small Louisiana mission might read his blog or hold him accountable. I really really hope he gets an earful.
New York, New York, it’s a hellavu town! for theology. I don’t seem to recall any pillories in Times Square, but hey, maybe they’ve added on recently.
Perfect statement of capitulation to culture. Paul wouldn’t pay the desired bribes to Felix or successors and lost his head over this Christian stuff. Bishops can’t risk approbrium.
Onward ECUSA/TEC bishops with the gospel of New York! So nice to have the gospel finally defined.
that would be “dis”approbrium, of course
Take the time to read the comments at the original postings of the article. Two in particular Jody+ and CBNYC’s appear to come from different sides of the liberal/conservative divide, but they are excellent commentaries.
Y’all don’t get it. He was in the SOUTH. Heck, we’re all backward down here and in need of educatin’. Heck, I don’t even wear shoes ‘cept when I have to go to court, least wise, not in the summer. He’d never have to do this kind of educatin’ in Newark, would he? I just hope that derelict rector didn’t go to Trinity or Nehshota; that might take more than educatin’ to fix!
My advice to the bishop, open your Bible to Joshua 24 “…then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve…But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
With people like Bishop Epting sitting in the House of Bishops is there any question as to why TEC is in the state it is in?
#13 / #15 (and all) — please focus on Bp. Epting’s entry rather than making general characterizations. Thanks.
Thank you “40-something big guy, with a red face and tears in his eyes.”
I appreciate what you said, whoever you are. Would that there were more of you.
With respect, Elves (and sadly), #13 very much addresses the thrust of Epting’s entry.
Mea Culpa.
Dear Elves–I truly wouldn’t want to get on your bad side, so I apologize. However, I meant my comment to be a direct statement on the bishop’s entry. I got the impression he was disgusted with the backwardness of the parishioners in a small Southern town I’ll try to be more direct and use less satire in future.
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[i]Thanks, David. We understood. Just want our commenters to keep in mind we have many visitors during weeks such as this, and OTT (over-the-top) or heavily sarcastic comments can be easily misunderstood[/i]
[quote]Where I live, in New York, we bishops will be pilloried if we make any concessions in a conservative direction. An 815 staff person walked out on Katharine Jefferts Schori after she reported on General Convention Resolution B033. It was too conservative.[/quote]
The early saints faced torture and death. This bishop cowers over what effete New Yorkers might think of him.